An Oregonian I met briefly four years ago sent this comment in a direct email to me. I wanted to share his wisdom with others:
Diane:
Great article!
My guess would be that she stopped communicating for the simple reason that you were using facts. Her comments were all about feelings. You might as well have been writing to her in a foreign language.
When you demanded a logical response, she couldn't handle it. I doubt that she's even sufficiently self-aware to actively gaslight you, if she's a typical liberal.
Victor Davis Hanson, one of my favorite commentators, recently pointed out that this self-anointed class of "elites" really believe that they are superior to the rest of us, because they "care about the underprivileged". Therefore, they are morally correct and need not consider conservative points of view. Importantly, their reasoning is always deductive: "I'm right, and I'm helping to build a utopia where everyone will have the same equality of result, so whatever I do to make that happen is necessary and good." This explains John Kerry, e.g. burning many tons of jet fuel flying to climate change conferences. Those who oppose this insanity are selfish, evil, etc., so they must be cancelled, or at least ignored.
Conservatives, as you have pointed out, do have the "cause and effect" gene, so we pay attention to the results of our actions and policies. This is inductive reasoning, e.g. letting boys play on girl's teams doesn't work, so we'd better not do that. Our actions are also based on Godly principles, not Marxism or some other man-centered philosophy.
I had a conversation, by text, with a liberal Trump hater several years ago, that was a bit similar to yours with your neighbor. To his credit, he actually tried to argue based on facts, until it became obvious that his "facts" were just propaganda from the usual fake news. Just one example will suffice to convey the flavor of our back-and-forth: he stated that Trump, as president, had signed more executive orders than any other president, thereby proving that he was a dictator (an argument which has recently been revived, as a clear case of psychological projection).
Trump did sign 220 executive orders, but it turns out that FDR signed 3721 (Bill, George Jr., and Barack all signed more than Trump). When I pointed this out, he immediately switched to another fake news "factoid". I kept swatting them down, until he finally took his ball and went home.
As Rush Limbaugh used to say, we can't argue with the left, we must simply defeat them.
Indeed! Liberals think emotionally, conservatives think rationally/logically. Just as with an unused muscle, liberal lose the ability to use their logica/rational (higher level) brains. They associate with other liberals so everything is "awful", "frightening", "terrible", "sad", "delightful", and so on. These are all primitive brain functions that reside in the cerebellum. Higher level logic and reasoning occur in the cerebrum, the latest part of the brain to evolve. Without use, it loses its ability to function well, just like an unused muscle. Liberals actually devolve their brains and some consider liberalist a mental illness.
Further, these two parts of the brain cannot function simultaneously. Try reasoning with a hysterical, maniacal, or enraged person and you will see what I mean.
I have a similar story to share. A PhD biologist said she hates Trump. I asked why. "He lies" was the answer. I asked what does he lie about. "Everything" was the reply. I asked her to give me one example. She couldn't, and walked away in a huff. So, Dwayne, I think you are spot on.
As your friend Dwayne pointed out, it seems to me that you already resolved this conundrum in your "Liberals Are Missing A Gene" article, yet you keep being astonished when "liberals" exhibit their seemingly endemic immunity to facts. I think the problem is this: when writing that article you imagined that you were joking, and you still can't bring yourself to believe your own writing. Even we conservatives have been brainwashed to believe that everyone is equally intellectually capable in all areas, as evidenced by our continually projecting our own expected behaviors onto others. I believe that VERY MUCH of human behavior can be attributed to genetics and/or to other immutable phenomena that we don't understand yet (e.g. why do some people have "charisma"?). The longer I'm around, the more I'm convinced that most of our individual characterstics were determined at conception, and that there's little we can do about them. Along these lines: All my life I've been puzzled by most other people's lack of appreciation of harmonically, melodically, and rhythmically complex music, preferring instead to listen to the simplistic dreck that nearly totally dominates our airwaves. In an era when technology makes it possible for more people to listen to more arguably "great" music than ever before, the opposite is happening - we now have a generation thoroughly immersed in hip-hop, which contains essentially no interesting harmonic, melodic, or rhythmic components at all. How can this be, unless the marketplace is revealing something we never previously knew about musical appreciation? My theory is that in previous eras of media scarcity, the music market was dominated by the relatively small part of the population that could appreciate the great stuff that was being produced - only for those who were interested enough to pay for it. Now that media are essentially free, we are for the first time seeing what the vast majority will choose to listen to. I found this idea so interesting, in fact, that I wrote an article about it (I post my non-political stuff on Medium): https://medium.com/@davidziffer/musicians-what-if-most-people-are-harmonically-deaf-816a7c1f06eb
Yes, I wrote the article about how Liberals are missing the "cause & effect" gene over a year ago. THAT is why they vote over & over again for policies that are not only destroying America, but destroying THEIR futures. Yet, when I am interacting with Liberals I can't help myself. I naturally assume, deep down, they are not as ignorant as they appear. I give each chance after chance to exhibit some awareness. BTW, I was kicked off of Medium in August 2019 because I wrote an article about Antifa violence. I tried to sign up again just now and I am still on "the list." Ha!
Yeah - Medium removed my "You Are Drowning In An Ocean Of Lies" article (on Medium) and warned me that my next offense might be my last. So in March I transferred all my then-existing stuff to Substack and have had no problems. But now on Substack I don't want to inundate my political audience with my non-political rants, so I keep those back on Medium. https://daveziffer.substack.com/p/you-are-drowning-in-an-ocean-of-lies
She didn’t seem to be a “gotcha” type; more likely the typical democrat whose level of political education is watching CNN and MSNBC. If she calls herself a progressive, that seems to mean she has achieved a level of enlightenment beyond us regular humans.
If she comes face to face with facts/data that suggest she has been lied to and led around by the nose, it is more likely she would go silent rather than admit she has been a complete fool.
Thank you for your take on her. I did not expect her to admit anything. I just wanted to hear what she thought of Biden's demonization of half of America and Washington State's AG wanted to deprogram Conservatives, Christians, Trump supporters, et al, and put us in jail or psych wards. Where is her humanity?
Two friends of mine said she expected to "convert" me. After my first email back to her she waited until I sent it two more times before she responded.
The bigger question is what do we do when our legislatures assault our Constitutional rights, as they are doing now? They've assaulted the 2nd Amendment as much as they can, and are now working on our 1st. Ovomit took care of our 4th Amendment, and Pelosi took care of our 6th Amendment a la Jan 6's "speedy trial". What do WE, THE PEOPLE do when the courts and legislatures let them get away with eroding our rights? At what point do we take up arms, en masse, and march to the capitol? When is enough, enough? If the courts do not enforce the Constitution, who's left but us? And if we do that, our country will be destroyed and ruled by MS-13 type warlords. If we don't, we will be reduced to a totalitarian country like China, completely at the mercy of tyrants, labeled "useless eaters", used as guinea pigs for vaccines, fed insects, and euthanized. Eminent Domain will include seizure of assets, in addition to property, at the whims of the rulers. I don't like where this is going.
It was fascinating that she ignored all the hatred coming from Democrats toward the rest of America these last 8 years and pretended that both sides were doing it.
I think you vastly underestimate the power and the reach of the MSM. Most people I know have their TVs and radios tuned rather permanently to stuff like CBS News, MSNBC, NPR, etc. Unless you spend some time listening to these outlets, you can't even begin to fathom how slanted they are. Until I realized how most people LITERALLY NEVER hear anything else and LITERALLY NEVER do their own independent research on any topic, it was hard for me to grasp how eternally brainwashed they are. Of course, on these platforms they DO hear Democrats spewing hatred and lunacy constantly. They hear Maxine Waters actively advocating for violence. The problem is that that is the ONLY political talk they hear. Like a fish that cannot imagine that it's in water because it has never experienced non-water, MSM listeners have literally no idea of the medium in which they are constantly immersed.
When Hillary insists that MAGA voters need "forcible reeducation" (forcible brainwashing) and Maxine can yell for Republicans to be thrown out of stores and restaurants and everything coming out of Nancy's mouth is a lie and the FBI has been weaponized by Democrat administration to go after their political enemies and a former President can be "impeached" AFTER leaving office and hounded relentlessly for something not even a crime to prevent him from running for office again (and winning), and when massive Democrat voter fraud is an industry and anybody who disagrees with a Democrat is called Racist or Homophobic or Islamophobic --- it's too late for Playing Nice. The Democrats have shown that they want to ignore or gut the Constitution. They want a banana republic with themselves in charge forever. So Victoria is either a complete fool or as crooked as the rest of them are. You are wasting your time talking with her. But you tried.
Yeah, anyone feeling we can “work together” is appallingly ignorant of what the progressive left created.
To put it in current context,
If the progressives want peaceful coexistence, they will lay down their arms (DEI, AA, climate hoax, Covidiocy, stupid wars, open borders) and return to the rule of law.
If the adults were to lay down our arms (facts, reality), there will be no rights for anyone.
These people want “peace” only on their terms of accepting all of the damage they have done, and requiring the adults to “forgive & forget” because “we’re all Americans.” Until they steal another election, set-loose another plandemic, destroy more lives with DEI, 1619, etc.
Yep! Cooperation never means meeting in the middle to Democrats. It means Democrats get everything they want, and Republicans completely cave. We have caved so often, for so long, Liberal policies have put America at death's door. Anyone who pretends not to notice is either a Useful Idiot or an Enemy of the People.
And when the left goes too far & ignites a hot war, it will be BECAUSE the GOPe never stood up to them. They all will be quite surprised because the right prevented the left from seeing what their overreach was creating.
Look at how Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, John McCain, Mitt Romney, to name just a few, betrayed the American people and fought for the Deep State against Americans.
I believe she was trying to get you to see things her way, and when you produced hard, undeniable facts, she realized that you could not be swayed. I agree with your "two friends".
Victoria’s leftist indoctrination has successfully built the immutable wall that’s imprisoned her. As is common with lefties, facts are ignored in favor of blaming their political opponents for not cooperating with them. Democrats expect Republicans to support them without ever having to support Republicans. Joe Biden declared that Americans who voted for Donald Trump are MAGA extremists or domestic terrorists, which Victoria conveniently ignores. She calls on Republicans to support her progressive views when the real war we’re fighting today is to save America from becoming a full blown communist police state controlled in perpetuity by authoritarian Democrats.
The 2024 presidential election will be like no other. It will decide, once & for all, whether America can be saved from the grip of Globalist tyranny. If the Dems are successful in either assassinating Trump or rigging the election, NO ONE will be safe from their revenge. They will imprison or execute ANYONE they perceive as being an America-First American. We will see even more Normal Americans escaping Blue States for Red States, hoping to slow down the destruction of their freedoms a little longer.
Diane, I think “useful idiot” is most likely, and yes, she was gaslighting. She didn’t read a damned thing. She appears to be seeking a Kumbaya moment, but obviously wasn’t willing to (as Stephen R. Covey wrote in The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) Seek First to Understand. I highly doubt she read or comprehended your articles, and if she had, is incapable of understanding your perspective. This is the power of Marxist indoctrination of smooth-brained humans. Any info to the contrary of what she hears from her “side” creates so much cognitive dissonance that just hearing the words “Conservative” or “Constitution” puts her head at risk of explosion...so she runs away.
You know me, my concern is always that they will find ways to attack you when you least expect it, either through your character, somehow turning the corrupted law against you, or with physical attacks.
Victoria (I changed her name to protect her identity) ran for city council last month and lost. We live in an unincorporated part of Pacific County, so we were not able to vote in her election. That tells me she is interested in politics, like me. Those who gaslight are very insulting: they think the listener is too stupid to discern reality from fantasy.
An Oregonian I met briefly four years ago sent this comment in a direct email to me. I wanted to share his wisdom with others:
Diane:
Great article!
My guess would be that she stopped communicating for the simple reason that you were using facts. Her comments were all about feelings. You might as well have been writing to her in a foreign language.
When you demanded a logical response, she couldn't handle it. I doubt that she's even sufficiently self-aware to actively gaslight you, if she's a typical liberal.
Victor Davis Hanson, one of my favorite commentators, recently pointed out that this self-anointed class of "elites" really believe that they are superior to the rest of us, because they "care about the underprivileged". Therefore, they are morally correct and need not consider conservative points of view. Importantly, their reasoning is always deductive: "I'm right, and I'm helping to build a utopia where everyone will have the same equality of result, so whatever I do to make that happen is necessary and good." This explains John Kerry, e.g. burning many tons of jet fuel flying to climate change conferences. Those who oppose this insanity are selfish, evil, etc., so they must be cancelled, or at least ignored.
Conservatives, as you have pointed out, do have the "cause and effect" gene, so we pay attention to the results of our actions and policies. This is inductive reasoning, e.g. letting boys play on girl's teams doesn't work, so we'd better not do that. Our actions are also based on Godly principles, not Marxism or some other man-centered philosophy.
I had a conversation, by text, with a liberal Trump hater several years ago, that was a bit similar to yours with your neighbor. To his credit, he actually tried to argue based on facts, until it became obvious that his "facts" were just propaganda from the usual fake news. Just one example will suffice to convey the flavor of our back-and-forth: he stated that Trump, as president, had signed more executive orders than any other president, thereby proving that he was a dictator (an argument which has recently been revived, as a clear case of psychological projection).
Trump did sign 220 executive orders, but it turns out that FDR signed 3721 (Bill, George Jr., and Barack all signed more than Trump). When I pointed this out, he immediately switched to another fake news "factoid". I kept swatting them down, until he finally took his ball and went home.
As Rush Limbaugh used to say, we can't argue with the left, we must simply defeat them.
All the best,
Dwayne
Indeed! Liberals think emotionally, conservatives think rationally/logically. Just as with an unused muscle, liberal lose the ability to use their logica/rational (higher level) brains. They associate with other liberals so everything is "awful", "frightening", "terrible", "sad", "delightful", and so on. These are all primitive brain functions that reside in the cerebellum. Higher level logic and reasoning occur in the cerebrum, the latest part of the brain to evolve. Without use, it loses its ability to function well, just like an unused muscle. Liberals actually devolve their brains and some consider liberalist a mental illness.
Further, these two parts of the brain cannot function simultaneously. Try reasoning with a hysterical, maniacal, or enraged person and you will see what I mean.
I have a similar story to share. A PhD biologist said she hates Trump. I asked why. "He lies" was the answer. I asked what does he lie about. "Everything" was the reply. I asked her to give me one example. She couldn't, and walked away in a huff. So, Dwayne, I think you are spot on.
As your friend Dwayne pointed out, it seems to me that you already resolved this conundrum in your "Liberals Are Missing A Gene" article, yet you keep being astonished when "liberals" exhibit their seemingly endemic immunity to facts. I think the problem is this: when writing that article you imagined that you were joking, and you still can't bring yourself to believe your own writing. Even we conservatives have been brainwashed to believe that everyone is equally intellectually capable in all areas, as evidenced by our continually projecting our own expected behaviors onto others. I believe that VERY MUCH of human behavior can be attributed to genetics and/or to other immutable phenomena that we don't understand yet (e.g. why do some people have "charisma"?). The longer I'm around, the more I'm convinced that most of our individual characterstics were determined at conception, and that there's little we can do about them. Along these lines: All my life I've been puzzled by most other people's lack of appreciation of harmonically, melodically, and rhythmically complex music, preferring instead to listen to the simplistic dreck that nearly totally dominates our airwaves. In an era when technology makes it possible for more people to listen to more arguably "great" music than ever before, the opposite is happening - we now have a generation thoroughly immersed in hip-hop, which contains essentially no interesting harmonic, melodic, or rhythmic components at all. How can this be, unless the marketplace is revealing something we never previously knew about musical appreciation? My theory is that in previous eras of media scarcity, the music market was dominated by the relatively small part of the population that could appreciate the great stuff that was being produced - only for those who were interested enough to pay for it. Now that media are essentially free, we are for the first time seeing what the vast majority will choose to listen to. I found this idea so interesting, in fact, that I wrote an article about it (I post my non-political stuff on Medium): https://medium.com/@davidziffer/musicians-what-if-most-people-are-harmonically-deaf-816a7c1f06eb
Yes, I wrote the article about how Liberals are missing the "cause & effect" gene over a year ago. THAT is why they vote over & over again for policies that are not only destroying America, but destroying THEIR futures. Yet, when I am interacting with Liberals I can't help myself. I naturally assume, deep down, they are not as ignorant as they appear. I give each chance after chance to exhibit some awareness. BTW, I was kicked off of Medium in August 2019 because I wrote an article about Antifa violence. I tried to sign up again just now and I am still on "the list." Ha!
Hope springs eternal, unfortunately. It took me a long time to get over my "hope" habit and start facing reality.
Yeah - Medium removed my "You Are Drowning In An Ocean Of Lies" article (on Medium) and warned me that my next offense might be my last. So in March I transferred all my then-existing stuff to Substack and have had no problems. But now on Substack I don't want to inundate my political audience with my non-political rants, so I keep those back on Medium. https://daveziffer.substack.com/p/you-are-drowning-in-an-ocean-of-lies
She didn’t seem to be a “gotcha” type; more likely the typical democrat whose level of political education is watching CNN and MSNBC. If she calls herself a progressive, that seems to mean she has achieved a level of enlightenment beyond us regular humans.
If she comes face to face with facts/data that suggest she has been lied to and led around by the nose, it is more likely she would go silent rather than admit she has been a complete fool.
Thank you for your take on her. I did not expect her to admit anything. I just wanted to hear what she thought of Biden's demonization of half of America and Washington State's AG wanted to deprogram Conservatives, Christians, Trump supporters, et al, and put us in jail or psych wards. Where is her humanity?
Maybe Victoria wants to avoid conflict and debate, while asking to play nice, but aiming to confuse and close you down.
Two friends of mine said she expected to "convert" me. After my first email back to her she waited until I sent it two more times before she responded.
The bigger question is what do we do when our legislatures assault our Constitutional rights, as they are doing now? They've assaulted the 2nd Amendment as much as they can, and are now working on our 1st. Ovomit took care of our 4th Amendment, and Pelosi took care of our 6th Amendment a la Jan 6's "speedy trial". What do WE, THE PEOPLE do when the courts and legislatures let them get away with eroding our rights? At what point do we take up arms, en masse, and march to the capitol? When is enough, enough? If the courts do not enforce the Constitution, who's left but us? And if we do that, our country will be destroyed and ruled by MS-13 type warlords. If we don't, we will be reduced to a totalitarian country like China, completely at the mercy of tyrants, labeled "useless eaters", used as guinea pigs for vaccines, fed insects, and euthanized. Eminent Domain will include seizure of assets, in addition to property, at the whims of the rulers. I don't like where this is going.
It was fascinating that she ignored all the hatred coming from Democrats toward the rest of America these last 8 years and pretended that both sides were doing it.
I think you vastly underestimate the power and the reach of the MSM. Most people I know have their TVs and radios tuned rather permanently to stuff like CBS News, MSNBC, NPR, etc. Unless you spend some time listening to these outlets, you can't even begin to fathom how slanted they are. Until I realized how most people LITERALLY NEVER hear anything else and LITERALLY NEVER do their own independent research on any topic, it was hard for me to grasp how eternally brainwashed they are. Of course, on these platforms they DO hear Democrats spewing hatred and lunacy constantly. They hear Maxine Waters actively advocating for violence. The problem is that that is the ONLY political talk they hear. Like a fish that cannot imagine that it's in water because it has never experienced non-water, MSM listeners have literally no idea of the medium in which they are constantly immersed.
When Hillary insists that MAGA voters need "forcible reeducation" (forcible brainwashing) and Maxine can yell for Republicans to be thrown out of stores and restaurants and everything coming out of Nancy's mouth is a lie and the FBI has been weaponized by Democrat administration to go after their political enemies and a former President can be "impeached" AFTER leaving office and hounded relentlessly for something not even a crime to prevent him from running for office again (and winning), and when massive Democrat voter fraud is an industry and anybody who disagrees with a Democrat is called Racist or Homophobic or Islamophobic --- it's too late for Playing Nice. The Democrats have shown that they want to ignore or gut the Constitution. They want a banana republic with themselves in charge forever. So Victoria is either a complete fool or as crooked as the rest of them are. You are wasting your time talking with her. But you tried.
She is either a Useful Idiot or Enemy of the People. https://dianelgruber.substack.com/p/are-you-a-useful-idiot-an-enemy-of
Yeah, anyone feeling we can “work together” is appallingly ignorant of what the progressive left created.
To put it in current context,
If the progressives want peaceful coexistence, they will lay down their arms (DEI, AA, climate hoax, Covidiocy, stupid wars, open borders) and return to the rule of law.
If the adults were to lay down our arms (facts, reality), there will be no rights for anyone.
These people want “peace” only on their terms of accepting all of the damage they have done, and requiring the adults to “forgive & forget” because “we’re all Americans.” Until they steal another election, set-loose another plandemic, destroy more lives with DEI, 1619, etc.
Yep! Cooperation never means meeting in the middle to Democrats. It means Democrats get everything they want, and Republicans completely cave. We have caved so often, for so long, Liberal policies have put America at death's door. Anyone who pretends not to notice is either a Useful Idiot or an Enemy of the People.
And when the left goes too far & ignites a hot war, it will be BECAUSE the GOPe never stood up to them. They all will be quite surprised because the right prevented the left from seeing what their overreach was creating.
Look at how Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, John McCain, Mitt Romney, to name just a few, betrayed the American people and fought for the Deep State against Americans.
I believe she was trying to get you to see things her way, and when you produced hard, undeniable facts, she realized that you could not be swayed. I agree with your "two friends".
Victoria’s leftist indoctrination has successfully built the immutable wall that’s imprisoned her. As is common with lefties, facts are ignored in favor of blaming their political opponents for not cooperating with them. Democrats expect Republicans to support them without ever having to support Republicans. Joe Biden declared that Americans who voted for Donald Trump are MAGA extremists or domestic terrorists, which Victoria conveniently ignores. She calls on Republicans to support her progressive views when the real war we’re fighting today is to save America from becoming a full blown communist police state controlled in perpetuity by authoritarian Democrats.
The 2024 presidential election will be like no other. It will decide, once & for all, whether America can be saved from the grip of Globalist tyranny. If the Dems are successful in either assassinating Trump or rigging the election, NO ONE will be safe from their revenge. They will imprison or execute ANYONE they perceive as being an America-First American. We will see even more Normal Americans escaping Blue States for Red States, hoping to slow down the destruction of their freedoms a little longer.
Diane, I think “useful idiot” is most likely, and yes, she was gaslighting. She didn’t read a damned thing. She appears to be seeking a Kumbaya moment, but obviously wasn’t willing to (as Stephen R. Covey wrote in The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) Seek First to Understand. I highly doubt she read or comprehended your articles, and if she had, is incapable of understanding your perspective. This is the power of Marxist indoctrination of smooth-brained humans. Any info to the contrary of what she hears from her “side” creates so much cognitive dissonance that just hearing the words “Conservative” or “Constitution” puts her head at risk of explosion...so she runs away.
You know me, my concern is always that they will find ways to attack you when you least expect it, either through your character, somehow turning the corrupted law against you, or with physical attacks.
Victoria (I changed her name to protect her identity) ran for city council last month and lost. We live in an unincorporated part of Pacific County, so we were not able to vote in her election. That tells me she is interested in politics, like me. Those who gaslight are very insulting: they think the listener is too stupid to discern reality from fantasy.