Is This Progressive Afraid Of Facts?
Faking Ignorance? Thoroughly Indoctrinated? What Is Wrong With Her?
Readers: I am always willing to dialogue with anyone. This exchange still has me scratching my head. Is Victoria as unaware & ignorant as her remarks suggest, or is she gaslighting me? Please read and let me know in your comments. Her remarks are in italics and mine are in bold. Diane
Hi Diane,
I would put my politics on the more progressive side of ideas. I think I'm safe in assuming that our ideas about how our nation should be run are very different. However, it is becoming clearer to me lately that it is not our differences that are the problem. It is our unwillingness to even come to the table and make the effort to resolve our problems. When democrats and republicans are unwilling to work together to solve problems for the people of this country, then the fighting will continue.
I was surprised to see that you live just up the road from me. It seems to me that the only way we can really resolve our issues is to respect each other and work together. We try to stay informed on issues and vote for leaders who are working to bring people together to solve problems, rather than create more division. We feel this is especially important during these difficult times.
It would be great to hear your thoughts about how to resolve the issues we face on a regional, state, and federal level.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Victoria
MY RESPONSE:
Victoria:
Thank you for your thoughtful email. I agree with virtually everything you said, IF this was the 1990s. We are way past the concept of "respect for each other" and "working together." Looking back, that was dying 20 years ago. It was put on life support in 2016-2017. To continue the analogy, these two concepts are about to enter hospice. This is why I started blog writing again. Hoping against all evidence to the contrary that our society and our nation could be saved. It is no longer Republican voters against Democrat voters, nor vice versa. It is the American people, regardless of political affiliation, against the DC Swamp which now has so much power the voters don't have a chance, at the national level, to have our voices heard.
To back up my opinion, see the articles below.
Diane
HOW DID REPUBLICANS BECOME SEMI-FASCISTS?
A Fifty-Year Process
https://dianelgruber.substack.com/p/how-did-republicans-become-semi-fascists
BILL TO JAIL AMERICANS FOR "WRONG SPEAK" FAILS IN WASHINGTON STATE HOUSE
“Model For The Nation"
https://dianelgruber.substack.com/p/bill-to-jail-americans-for-wrong
VICTORIA’S RESPONSE:
Good morning Diane,
I took some time and re-read the links you sent earlier. One thing you talk about that we are in agreement on is the idea of the "other." Imo, we are on a dangerous path when we look to demonize another - whether it is done by republicans or democrats.
I believe that the only way we are going to rebuild trust and work together is to begin seeing the "other," regardless of race, gender, or politics, as another human being whose needs and values are as important as our own. So, the real questions might be: Can we see ourselves? Can we see what we are creating when we lash out at the "other?"
Victoria
Victoria:
Had you not said you are a progressive, I would have assumed, based upon your emails, that you were a Libertarian, Conservative and/or Christian. AG Bob Ferguson is running for governor. Knowing that he wrote HB1333 (AGs never write legislation), which is designed to chase down Christians, Conservatives & Republicans and force them into "deprogramming" classes or worse, do you support him for governor? After Joe Biden has spent the last three years demonizing half of America, what do you think can be done now to decrease the divisions among Americans?
Diane
Hi Diane,
I haven't read anything yet about HB1333 or Bob Ferguson. [I sent her this information over a month ago and she said she read it.] As for how to decrease the divisions among Americans, I think it calls for each of us to honestly look at what we are putting out into the political arena and elsewhere - especially our leaders. It has to do with each of us seeing the "other" as valid - and a willingness to begin a conversation from that point of view.
V
Victoria: Don't take my word for it. There are many links in this article, including Washington State House Bill 1333 and Ferguson's interview with PBS. You said you read this article already, which I sent to you over a month ago. Diane
BILL TO JAIL AMERICANS FOR "WRONG SPEAK" FAILS IN WASHINGTON STATE HOUSE
“Model For The Nation"
https://dianelgruber.substack.com/p/bill-to-jail-americans-for-wrong
CONCLUSION
I never heard from Victoria again. She repeatedly said we should not demonize each other, but refused to discuss Biden’s demonization of half of America. And she pretended to know nothing about AG Ferguson and his demonizing legislation which has been floating around for a year, even though she lives in Washington State and claims to be well informed.
She said she wanted to hear my thoughts, but did not respond to “my thoughts.” I am left to wonder if she lives in a cocoon, or if she was gaslighting me. I welcome your conclusions because I am baffled. Why didn’t I hear from her again?
DIALOGUE: WILL CONSERVATIVES & LIBERALS EVER BE ABLE TO TALK AGAIN?
Over the last few years, this American felt a greater & greater desire to dialogue with Liberals. Frankly, I wanted to understand why they continue to vote for policies that are so obviously destroying their own nation, destroying their own society, and
An Oregonian I met briefly four years ago sent this comment in a direct email to me. I wanted to share his wisdom with others:
Diane:
Great article!
My guess would be that she stopped communicating for the simple reason that you were using facts. Her comments were all about feelings. You might as well have been writing to her in a foreign language.
When you demanded a logical response, she couldn't handle it. I doubt that she's even sufficiently self-aware to actively gaslight you, if she's a typical liberal.
Victor Davis Hanson, one of my favorite commentators, recently pointed out that this self-anointed class of "elites" really believe that they are superior to the rest of us, because they "care about the underprivileged". Therefore, they are morally correct and need not consider conservative points of view. Importantly, their reasoning is always deductive: "I'm right, and I'm helping to build a utopia where everyone will have the same equality of result, so whatever I do to make that happen is necessary and good." This explains John Kerry, e.g. burning many tons of jet fuel flying to climate change conferences. Those who oppose this insanity are selfish, evil, etc., so they must be cancelled, or at least ignored.
Conservatives, as you have pointed out, do have the "cause and effect" gene, so we pay attention to the results of our actions and policies. This is inductive reasoning, e.g. letting boys play on girl's teams doesn't work, so we'd better not do that. Our actions are also based on Godly principles, not Marxism or some other man-centered philosophy.
I had a conversation, by text, with a liberal Trump hater several years ago, that was a bit similar to yours with your neighbor. To his credit, he actually tried to argue based on facts, until it became obvious that his "facts" were just propaganda from the usual fake news. Just one example will suffice to convey the flavor of our back-and-forth: he stated that Trump, as president, had signed more executive orders than any other president, thereby proving that he was a dictator (an argument which has recently been revived, as a clear case of psychological projection).
Trump did sign 220 executive orders, but it turns out that FDR signed 3721 (Bill, George Jr., and Barack all signed more than Trump). When I pointed this out, he immediately switched to another fake news "factoid". I kept swatting them down, until he finally took his ball and went home.
As Rush Limbaugh used to say, we can't argue with the left, we must simply defeat them.
All the best,
Dwayne
She didn’t seem to be a “gotcha” type; more likely the typical democrat whose level of political education is watching CNN and MSNBC. If she calls herself a progressive, that seems to mean she has achieved a level of enlightenment beyond us regular humans.
If she comes face to face with facts/data that suggest she has been lied to and led around by the nose, it is more likely she would go silent rather than admit she has been a complete fool.